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RFE/RL: How many Kazakh families are there in Afghanistan?

Ziyavolhak Abdul Jalil: There are about 25 Kazakh families in Afghanistan. Mostly Kazakh families live in the cities of Mazar-i-Sharif, Kundyz, Baghlan and Kabul. They gather during family holidays. Be that as it may, they live in another country, so the Kazakhs also adhere to local traditions. But this does not mean that they have an Afghan way of life. Kazakh traditions have not become obsolete. For example, Kazakhs still do not marry their girls to Afghans, they are only related to each other. The Kazakhs of Afghanistan are descendants of different clans from the Little Zhuz. There is no blood relation between them.

RFE/RL: How do the Kazakhs of Afghanistan manage to preserve their national mentality, their native language?

Ziyavolhak Abdul Jalil: Now the Kazakhs of Afghanistan, leaving somewhere, speak other languages, because there are no other Kazakhs to speak with them in their native language. However, at home, everyone speaks only Kazakh among themselves. All families must speak Kazakh. It is necessary. For this reason, all Kazakhs of Afghanistan speak their native language very well. Still haven't forgotten it. For example, there are 14 people in our family. We, all 12 children, only speak Kazakh among ourselves.

RFE/RL: You are Kazakh and receive education in Kazakhstan with the support of the Afghan government. How did you get this opportunity?

Ziyavolhak Abdul Jalil: According to Afghan laws, students who successfully pass the entrance exams are sent to study abroad. I am not the only Kazakh who came to study in Kazakhstan. My sister is also studying with me. Now we are studying in the third year of the Kazakh National Agrarian University with a degree in water resources.

RFE/RL: Do you have the opportunity to stay in Kazakhstan after completing your studies?

The story of Ziyavolhak Abdul Jalil. Video:

​Ziyavolhak Abdul Jalil: We study at the expense of the government, so after graduating from the university we must return to Afghanistan and work. Will be working. Then only there will be an opportunity to move to Kazakhstan. However, will I be able to get a job in my specialty here? Perhaps it won't work. In Afghanistan, I can get a job in the civil service. Secondly, many Kazakhs of Afghanistan moved here after Kazakhstan gained independence. But there are those who stayed there. They have a good social position - and this is one of the reasons why they do not move. Kazakhs living in cities are engaged in trade. Rural Kazakhs are engaged in agriculture and animal husbandry.

RFE/RL: Do Kazakhs in Afghanistan also live in rural areas?

Ziyavolhak Abdul Jalil: Close to cities. For example, my parents live in the Beskepe area near the city of Kundyz. We have our own lands, cattle. We have shops in the city. The land and livestock are handled by separate people. We also keep kokpar horses. Kokpar has existed in Afghanistan for a long time. We sit on horses and participate in kokpar. My older brothers also love kokpar.

RFE/RL: Is Beskepe the Kazakh name of the area or has it existed for a long time?

Ziyavolhak Abdul Jalil: I don't know exactly where the name comes from. My ancestors were natives of the Sagyz area, in the Aktobe region. For some time after moving from Kazakhstan, they lived in Tajikistan, in the area of ​​Kurgan Tepe. Then they moved to Afghanistan. Perhaps the area was then given such a name. The area where the Kazakhs crossed the border for the first time is called the “Kazakh crossing”.

RFE/RL: Thanks for the interview.

... Sattar answered our questions almost in monosyllables and even, it seemed, somehow wary. There was no sugary smile on his face, which is usual for local residents, but such an obligatory smile in a conversation. But even from his laconic proposals, a clear picture of the life of people who, breaking away from their native land, lived for a long time in a distant, warring country, formed a picture of the life of today's Afghan Kazakhs.
Text: Philip Prokudin
Photo: Ruslan Pryanikov

The interview with Sattar, who left his native Kunduz to work in Kabul, was the first meeting of correspondents .kz with Afghan Kazakhs. Sattar is an exception in this sense, his tribesmen, who live mainly in the north of Afghanistan, rarely go so far south, into the Pashtun part of the country. Later, in Mazar-i-Sharif, we met with the elders of the already small Kazakh diaspora scattered across different provinces of Afghanistan.

These meetings were organized thanks to the sincere and disinterested help of our compatriots living and working in Afghanistan. The Kazakhs helped the “.kz” correspondents not only find Afghan Kazakhs, but also invited us and our interlocutors to their homes, helped with the translation.

Relationships are equal
The conversation with Sattar, frankly speaking, did not go well at first. The sociable Sattar, recommended to us as a guy, literally snarled words, outlining the history of his family.

When did my family leave Kazakhstan? In the 80s, but no, not in the 80s. 80 years ago, so right, even 85 years ago. Yes, exactly 85 years ago we moved here, - remembering this, Sattar fell silent.

Why did your family leave your homeland? I asked and almost shuddered, that was how the question sounded like “investigative”. Is that why Sattar is so wary? Or just shy?

There was a war,” he said shortly.

War? I, a translator and a photojournalist, figured this way and that, guessing what kind of war broke out in the steppes of Kazakhstan in the 30s of the 20th century? Maybe Sattar's ancestors suffered from collectivization, from some other disaster comparable to war?

Our interlocutor spoke much more readily about modernity.

A lot of Kazakhs lived, almost everyone left, many Kazakhs lived in Bagdan, Kunduz, Herat, and as soon as the opportunity arose, many immediately left and left for Kazakhstan. I myself will probably leave, - Sattar began to speak in common sentences. - With local relations, as far as I remember, they were even, and my father used to say the same. Even when the war was going on, they didn’t take our machine guns in their hands, so that’s all for the Kazakhs – sometimes some come with weapons, sometimes others didn’t really touch.

Naturally, we were also interested in the language issue. More precisely, in Afghanistan it is in some sense more correct to call it the “answer” - Afghans usually speak two or three, or even several languages. The study of neighboring languages ​​is facilitated by the fact that a significant part of them have a common Iranian root, but the multilingualism of the inhabitants of this country is still respected.

Sattar casually told us that he spoke Dari, Pashto, Hindustani, Kazakh, Uzbek, and a little Russian.

When asked what languages ​​he studied at school, whether Kazakh was taught at school, Sattar answered that at school all subjects were taught in Dari, there was no Kazakh language at school, just as there were no Kazakh schools or Kazakh classes. At least he hadn't heard of anything like that. By the way, when we asked this question, we did not understand the expressive look of our translator.

We were also interested in life. According to Sattar, although his tribesmen retained all the skills of pastoralists, now the Kazakhs are fed mainly from agriculture and trade.

Yurts? Yes, there are yurts, shepherds use them. And for the holidays, of course, they set up yurts - on toi, on Nauryz, - Sattar explained. – Traditional crafts? Now, probably, the ustazes and zergers have only remained among the old people.

The departure of many Kazakhs to their homeland posed a very significant problem for a traditional society for a small diaspora - where to look for brides and grooms for young people.

Aksakals think, - our interlocutor informed us in his laconic measure. - No one is against marrying a bride in Kazakhstan, but who will go here or let her daughter go? And the groom is unlikely to come here ...

Life is different
The elders, unlike Sattar, smiled often, answered questions lively and in detail, asked us about life in Kazakhstan with great curiosity and, in general, gave the impression of cheerful and self-confident people.

Khoja Mamur Abdu Disalil had an “Aramis” beard, Sadyka-ata was beardless and, if not for the turban, resembled an ordinary Alma-Ata pensioner - one of those who wear a suit in almost any weather and regularly buy a newspaper at a kiosk.

First of all, the elders apologized that they could not receive us at their homes - it is not safe in Kunduz now. And since we look a bit unusual for the locals - Khoja Mamur tactfully noted - then, of course, we simply have to honor the Kazakh houses in the neighboring city with our presence, but only next time.

Then the elders, apparently out of habit, took the initiative into their own hands, ceremoniously inquiring about the happiness and health of our loved ones, whether the path was difficult and other important things.

Whether as proof of his hospitality, or for the sake of Khoja's solidity, Mamur took out a solid stack of business cards, pulled out one card from it and presented it - they had the name of our colleague on them.

But that was a long time ago,” he consoled us. “Things are changing very fast here. Now another life has begun.

Having quickly paid tribute to courtesy - we drank only one teapot of tea during the questions - the aksakals got ready to answer our questions.

Khoja Mamur and Sadyk knew the history of their families very well. Having migrated from Mangyshlak at the beginning of the last century (“They fled because of colonization,” the translator briefly explained, “Some clans rose, someone had to migrate”), their ancestors, having visited the lands of the Kokand Khanate and the Emir of Bukhara, ended up in Afghanistan .

This is mysticism, but Khoji Mamuru was told so by his ancestors, - the translator turned to us after listening to a few phrases from the elder. - When they walked here through the dzhangali - this is a bush, brilliant green - predators came out to meet them: wolves and leopards. The old men approached the animals and said: “Both you and we are creatures of God, and people are persecuting us, and you, we, just like you, are wandering without shelter yet ...” The animals left, and all the time while they were going to a new place , not a single predator attacked either livestock or people. But the Amu Darya did not spare many - then there were no bridges, no ferries - they lost many at the crossing, and they lost a lot of livestock ...

The Kazakhs, who became settled, quickly got along with their neighbors. Although at first the local authorities, having given them uninhabited lands, then drove the strangers from the cultivated fields.

There were conflicts, but so that the peoples were at enmity - this was not the case. They quarreled over land, over water, but where there are no quarrels because of this, even relatives quarrel over property,” said Sadyk-ata. - The same kokpar is called buzkashi here - this is a national sport, everyone - Kazakhs, Tajiks, and Uzbeks play. Who wins more often? So after all, teams here are not assembled only from Kazakhs, or only from Tajiks, Uzbeks, always mixed. Winners win.

There is a problem with brides and grooms, the elders admitted, but, inshallah, families will be created in a shrinking diaspora - aksakals will find both wives and husbands for their own. Hodjmi Mamoor gave an illustrative example to make us understand how dangerous it is to let the issue of choosing a marriage partner take its course in a small community.

One of ours took a bride from his neighbors, from another nation, and got married. It's like - a husband on earnings, a wife with children, she brings up children. As a result, in that family, the daughters do not know Kazakh customs or traditions. Daughters will most likely not marry ours. And there are so few brides...

By the way, here the aksakals explained why our previous interlocutors were so surprised by the question of Kazakh schools or classes.

It's good here if children go to an ordinary school, an Afghan one. And not just because it's hard. The Taliban often attack schools, there, in Pakistan, bombs explode there, as if they were some kind of military bases. Here, in the north, this is not very felt, and the farther south, the more problems with the school. Parents are afraid.

After discussing everyday issues with us, Khoja Mamur and Sadyk-ata went to zhuma-namaz to return for dinner. At dinner, the elders watched with approval as we, as we, led by the owner of the house, put pilaf on plates.

You were in Kazakhstan, there is a different life, different customs, how do you feel about this?

I treat with understanding. Here is an Islamic country, it is called the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan, Sharia laws are here, and Kazakhstan is a secular country, it has its own laws, people live differently there. The main thing is that they live well, I like it. And how they dress, where they go - who cares? Hodzhmi Mamur answered judiciously. – And the traditions in Kazakhstan are remembered, and that they live in a new way - there is nothing wrong with that.

As it turned out, the elders get acquainted with the modern culture of Kazakhstan and what was created during the years when they were cut off from their homeland with great interest.

We watched films: "Angel in a skullcap", "My name is Kozha", "Our dear doctor", "The end of the ataman" - both aksakals showed an excellent acquaintance with the Kazakh Soviet cinematography. - Good films, sincere, kind, about ordinary people - everyone is interested. Many interesting books were written, as we were told. It would also be a pleasure to read. It's close to us. In different countries, life, of course, is different, but people are the same everywhere ...

At parting, the aksakals ordered us to say hello to Kazakhstan.

I'll come and check, - holding my hand while shaking hands, Sadyk-ata began seriously, then laughed. - As soon as I cross the border, I'll ask - did such and such convey my greetings, or not? Akzhol.

Ziyavolkhak Abdul Jalil is an ethnic Kazakh from Afghanistan, a student at the Kazakh National Agrarian University in Almaty. In an interview with Azattyk, he talks about the life and way of life of the Kazakhs in Afghanistan.

RFE/RL: How many Kazakh families are there in Afghanistan?

Ziyavolhak Abdul Jalil: There are about 25 Kazakh families in Afghanistan. Mostly Kazakh families live in the cities of Mazar-i-Sharif, Kundyz, Baghlan and Kabul. They gather during family holidays. Be that as it may, they live in another country, so the Kazakhs also adhere to local traditions. But this does not mean that they have an Afghan way of life. Kazakh traditions have not become obsolete. For example, Kazakhs still do not marry their girls to Afghans, they are only related to each other. The Kazakhs of Afghanistan are descendants of different clans from the Little Zhuz. There is no blood relation between them.

RFE/RL: How do the Kazakhs of Afghanistan manage to preserve their national mentality, their native language?

Ziyavolhak Abdul Jalil: Now the Kazakhs of Afghanistan, leaving somewhere, speak other languages, because there are no other Kazakhs to speak with them in their native language. However, at home, everyone speaks only Kazakh among themselves. All families must speak Kazakh. It is necessary. For this reason, all Kazakhs of Afghanistan speak their native language very well. Still haven't forgotten it. For example, there are 14 people in our family. We, all 12 children, only speak Kazakh among ourselves.

RFE/RL: You are a Kazakh and are being educated in Kazakhstan with the support of the Afghan government. How did you get this opportunity?

Ziyavolhak Abdul Jalil: According to Afghan laws, students who successfully pass the entrance exams are sent to study abroad. I am not the only Kazakh who came to study in Kazakhstan. My sister is also studying with me. Now we are studying in the third year of the Kazakh National Agrarian University with a degree in Water Resources.

RFE/RL: Do you have the opportunity to stay in Kazakhstan after completing your studies?

The story of Ziyavolhak Abdul Jalil. Video:

Ziyavolhak Abdul Jalil: We study at the expense of the government, so after graduating from the university we must return to Afghanistan and work. Will be working. Then only there will be an opportunity to move to Kazakhstan. However, will I be able to get a job in my specialty here? Perhaps it won't work. In Afghanistan, I can get a job in the civil service. Secondly, many Kazakhs of Afghanistan moved here after Kazakhstan gained independence. But there are those who stayed there. They have a good social position - and this is one of the reasons why they do not move. Kazakhs living in cities are engaged in trade. Rural Kazakhs are engaged in agriculture and animal husbandry.

RFE/RL: Do Kazakhs in Afghanistan also live in rural areas?

Ziyavolhak Abdul Jalil: Close to cities. For example, my parents live in the Beskepe area near the city of Kundyz. We have our own lands, cattle. We have shops in the city. The land and livestock are handled by separate people. We also keep kokpar horses. Kokpar has existed in Afghanistan for a long time. We sit on horses and participate in kokpar. My older brothers also love kokpar.

RFE/RL: Is "Beskepe" the Kazakh name of the area or has it existed for a long time?

Ziyavolhak Abdul Jalil: I don't know exactly where the name comes from. My ancestors were natives of the Sagyz area, in the Aktobe region. For some time after moving from Kazakhstan, they lived in Tajikistan, in the area of ​​Kurgan Tepe. Then they moved to Afghanistan. Perhaps the area was then given such a name. The area where the Kazakhs crossed the border for the first time is called the “Kazakh crossing”.

RFE/RL: Thanks for the interview.

http://rus.azattyq.org/a/afghanistan-kazakhi/28133025.html